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Light air gear

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:34 am
by Trip Houk
Yes! I think you've got something: What type of sail do I need to go with the borrowed gear from forum members? I think you're trying to talk me out of the Hyper so you can get Duane's when he gets fed up with it. There's a Star Formula in Escondido for $400. Anyone want to bring it back for me? :lol:

Sails for Trip

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:45 pm
by John Dubock
cams are somehow the sail of choice for Hypers and Formula boards. Not the old style heavy cams, but the new Ezzy easy to rig, insanely powerful types that Jim Southwick likes. Everyone who rides camless has a strong opinion why they work also.

The key to a Hypersonic is getting it up on a plane, and cams in gusty, on/conditions means you might plane through a lull and never come off the plane. A cammed sail can keep its shape as you concentrate on finding the puff, loading up the fin, getting into the straps.

Lots of older Ezzy's and Sailworks cammed sails are fine as parttime sails and if you shop enough are cheap.

next is fins for Trip!

Light air gear

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:11 pm
by Trip Houk
John, et all,
Yes that's right I need to think ahead to other gear I can borrow...maybe Jerry will let me use his new motorhome to lug all this borrowed equipment around!
In search of the elusive "perfect board" I came accross Warren "war-dog" Thomas at Whatruguystryingtokeephimasecret? He has tons of gear all of which he's tried at great prices and helpful insight into what might work best for our needs. He's recommending a board that I haven't seen before to smoke you guys. :D

Trips summer is really shaping up!

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:18 pm
by John Dubock
Please be careful about Mr. Warddog. I had good relations with him since he's from my hometown of Santa Barbara. He has a great website with tons of real info. He also has the ego of Super Dell. Brett Linde can tell you horror stories of rec.windsurfing where Warddog took on our own ex Utah boy Bill Kline in a flame war online for weeks on end. Mr. Dog also nearly took out the Starboard Forum singlehandly last year with insane ego trips that nearly prompted user registration. He ain't subtle and isn't shy about promoting his wares, which happen to come out of a garage in Cali.

Warddog makes his own fins, rides his gear so he walks the talk. The above is my opinion.

Re: Light air gear

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:17 pm
by Craig Goudie
So, what board is it?

-Craig (waiting for the smoke)

p.s. I like my Hyper, but they're not for everybody. You just mentioned
you wanted to jibe, you can do that with a Hyper. But It's like Dimitri

pps. When are you and Judy getting back to the Gorge?

Trip Houk wrote:John, et all,
Yes that's right I need to think ahead to other gear I can borrow...maybe Jerry will let me use his new motorhome to lug all this borrowed equipment around!
In search of the elusive "perfect board" I came accross Warren "war-dog" Thomas at Whatruguystryingtokeephimasecret? He has tons of gear all of which he's tried at great prices and helpful insight into what might work best for our needs. He's recommending a board that I haven't seen before to smoke you guys. :D

Set to smoke em...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:25 pm
by Trip Houk
The board Warren "wart-hog" I mean WARDOG suggested that the awesome board for my use would be the Exocet S4. I have a few doubts though because the largest displacement seems to be 125L, a little small for keeping up with the big boys. I like the looks of it but would have to lose some weight to get the full benefit.
The board I called him about is the Star Free formula 138 which has gotten raves and looks to be more manageable for the "not quite ready for racing" terminal intermediate like myself.
The whole process of looking for a new board has me reading the forums, manufacturer's stats and maybe learning a few things. (not to mention all the generous offers to borrow/demo gear) I thought that it would be a simpler choice. Sara's advice now seems sage: use the stock picker's technique...close your eyes and through a dart! :lol:

Fat Gear....

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:05 am
by Sarah Ranes
Thought I would post some thoughts here too, since I made the choice for the full on formula board, and why. I had a really nice 68 cm board NSM board that carried a 9.0 pretty well, but I had a day that I was using that setup at DC. I was getting good rides adjusting to the big sail, but I had Carl C doing laps around me, and I thought that is really cool and looks fun to me. It's interesting that Carl seems to influence all of our wind surfing minds, I'm not sure I would have tried it with out him....Thanks Carl!
Any way I did a lot of research and talked to some racers, male and female and decided to give it a try. I have to say that I've had times that I've really enjoyed it, and had times that it's really challenging. If it is kind of smooth light wind, it's a blast to really go exploring, way up the lake and back down. I don't have the expertise of Carl, but feel that I have learned alot. To me the pay off of being able to go so deep upwind and down, far out weighs the jibing part of things. To me jibing a 80 cm board is not far from the 100 wide, it a very wide stance and things come around slow either way. You still have to work on your technique just as much to try and plane out of a jibe on the fat gear.
I tried John D. HS 105, which is the same as Carls and found it to feel alot like the formula, but does not plane nearly as early. All HS have the same bottom shape and size (about 75 cm wide), they just come in different thichnesses for the volume, so a 133 won't neccisarrily make you plane any earlier, but will help with schlogging. The formula is easiest of all to schlogg, but jumps up on a plane in just a puff of wind. If I was any good at pumping, it would do even better.
The challenging part of this in Utah is how up and down our wind is, and on formula gear you have to figure out how to use it. I've been out at UL and haveing a good time on the 9.0, heading upwind a mile or so, and had the wind kick up to 6.5 wind. You know you have to get back, and that's when it gets a bit scarry, heading deep down wind, over the back of the swell, with a lot of power in your sail. Talk about a work out, (glad to have a chicken strap now)'s very memorable.
So that's the choices that I have made, where some will choose others. Each rig has it's specialty wind range and none is perfect. With my choice, I can go from the 9.0 and formula and plane in very light wind, to a 6.5 sail, and JP SX 106 ltr 63 cm wide. Even that has a bit of cross over. If I wan to BAF I use the 106, if I want to do the upwind - down wind I go Formula. I have to say, it's a bit lonely, sailing the formula gear cause most of your friends are BAFing. But I have to admit that, it is a really cool feeling too, to travel on ws gear all by your self (and a 100 boats) up and down the lakes.
Like most WS'rs I opt for smaller gear when I can, but the formula gear has certainly gotten me more time on the water, which always makes me smile. It's a really cool feeling to be planning along in the straps in very light wind, kind of like flying. For now I'm going to stick with this gear, It has taught me alot and has improved my sailing skills even on the small stuff. I did purchase a smaller 66 cm fin, for the formula, to make it a bit more controllable when the wind kicks up....we'll see.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:13 am
by Marty Lowe
Great thread.

Almost makes me........

....Na maybe not.

-Marty 8)

Hyper talk

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:12 am
by John Dubock
My Hypers are 125 litres, I was fortunate to get a couple when they were unloading them worldwide after a 'bad review' in a magazine. Not a huge difference between the 105 and 125 but enough to notice much easier planing in lighter wind.

Some, but not all, HS 105 owners: Kevin Simmons, Tom Smart...Jim Southwick has the woodie HS 96 and at least one HS 105. I've seen Sarah smoke us all in low winds at Sulphur on her Formula.

Light air gear

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:42 am
by Trip Houk
Sarah, Marty et all,
Thanks for all (well most anyway) the useful and humourous feedback. I've had somewhat of an an epiphany about what I had perceived I wanted. I started off thinking that I wanted the new Techno II, then the Hyper 133, then the Free Formula 138 but will probably go with a full formula.
The choice might have been easier for someone of Sarah or Dimo's ability but then I still like Technos so that probably says something about either my ability or time warp....thanks for all the generous offers to try various gear. I suspect that the only formulas to be seen locally are in use when conditions permit. It does seem to make more sense to buy a used formula and learn how to sail it. Ping pong anyone?
Trip :lol:

Big Boards

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:02 pm
by kenonstott
I am a little late on this, I didn't even know the forum was on until John said something. I ended up with a Carve 135 courtesy of Mr. Dubock's connections. I had agonized over the choice like you, had wanted Free Formula or Formula gear, and somehow ended up with the Carve (everyone knows it is because I am cheap and John offered me a new Carve for $700). I was startled at how much more comfortable it was than my old long gear of the same volume. The boom can't hit the tip and the ride seems much drier. Except a few times when I was schlogging on an 8.5 with Sarah whipping by on her Formula, I have been happy with the Carve. You do seem to be aiming a little big unless the goal is to plane in no caps. Dimitri is right about the jibing. But also, the 135L board seems so much more versatile as you can still be having loads of fun on it when the wind comes ripping in at Sulphur. It seems by giving up just a little planing ability in the lightest winds you can have a board that suits a lot wider range of conditions. I find myself frequently riding the 135 in place of my older 104L board as it will go fast, is comfortable in a lull, it is big enough that I can uphaul on it, and it planes up fast. The planing is so improved over my previous board that I use my 6.9 as my light wind sail now, leaving the 7.5 and 8.5 in the garage. Those real big boards are made for real big sails and what is the biggest sail you want? I am surprised Dimitri didn't mention fins. The Carve came with a 50cm fin that was a dog. I immediately bought 52 and 42 cm Curtis fins. The idea was to use the big fin for marginal planing and the little fin for ragged-edge sailing. At first, for Utah, I was using the big fin most of the time and I was talking to Bill about a fin for my Sonic and told him the Carve seemed slow even with his big racing fin. He told me I was using the wrong fin if I wanted to go fast and boy was he right. In good powered up 6.5 conditions with the 42cm fin it seems the 135 can keep up with a lot of supposadly fast boards. Huge fins seemed to be the rage and I wonder, after my experience, if they aren't wrong in a lot of conditions. Anyway, these new, shorter boards have brought a smile to my face. Find a good deal and buy one.

Light air gear

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:59 pm
by Trip Houk
Thanks for the additional feedback. It's amazing the variety of recommendations people have for light air gear. You probably have a good point about size: John and his boys were using the HS 125's on Sunday in up and down conditions. I suspect that any of the newer gear would be an improvement over our blue technos especially if the board is lighter. Whatever I get, it'll be obsolete within a year anyway.
I'm intrigued by the Hypersonics which their users swear by, and the formulas, ditto. The fellow at Surfingsports, Warren was touting the Exocet S4, which looks to be a hybrid similar to the Carve. Does anyone know of a location where they demo all this new gear. I may have to take a few weeks off and go try it all out....whoops my boss is coming got to look busy.
Trip :lol:

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:32 pm
by obzansky
thanks for starting a geat discussion!

I recently had a chance to ride the entire Carve line for 2 weeks in Bonaire. Most days provided light wind which was fine for Eileen as she was learning. Because of the shallow water, all of the boards had short swept back fins. Even with this type of fin, which I'm sure was a significant compromise, I thought the entire line sailed great! At about 150 lbs, I was able to get the Carve 145 (with an 8.5 sail, largest they had) planning in about 9 knots without pumping. Some of the more weighty guys had trouble with the 145 in low wind conditions and did better on the 160s. As my current big board is also a Techno 283, I can assure you that you will enjoy the Carve boards much better than the Techno.


Goodbye Trip's Beloved Techno!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:45 pm
by John Dubock
As Dave O's sailing partner you can bet I've hounded him for not being a Starboard Brotherhooder. His good fortune in Bonaire made him renounce his Blue Bomber Techno, he failed to mention he's the proud owner of a cherry Hypersonic 105 and a GO 180, talk about a committment! Truth be known Dave was secretly hooked on a HS 105 through a rescue. Troy being all boy took the HS 105 half way out Sulphur and decided he 'couldn't uphaul it, nor waterstart', Dave sailed out on his Techno Lifeguard Unit, and flew back on the HS 105, a star was born.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:13 pm
by JimSouthwick
Oh no, not more opinions! Sorry, I can't help myself. Like you (and probably every other Utah sailor) I've spent years looking for the perfect light-to-moderate-wind board. I thought I'd found it when I got my FF138, which planes early, points high (although not quite as high as a Formula) jibes pretty well, and has enough volume to make schlogging reasonably painless. (Mine is the original, narrow FF138; I'm guessing that the more recent, wider version planes quicker but is a bit less agile.) Then Carl sold me his F155, which planes even quicker, points higher, and jibes almost as well (and better than the newer Formulas according to Carl.) Based on my experience, then, I'd advise grabbing a F155 if you can find one. If not, the FF138 is definitely worth a look; you're welcome to take mine for a spin. Again, neither the FF138 nor the F155 is going to keep up with Carl and Sarah's Formula boards, but they're easier to jibe.