Getting Into the Hobby

Daily Wind forecasts, questions about weather, gear, locations, etc.

Moderators: Craig Goudie, RickHeninger, Josh Shirley

Speed vs Air?

Postby Craig Goudie » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:11 pm

Let me just mention that this "windsurfers are for speed, kites are for
air" is a little misleading. A kite boarder always wins the Gorge Blowout
(a 30 mile downwinder), and I have seen Dale Cook get Kite Board air on
a windsurfer. I think at the relative speeds of the layman, they're both
about equal (speed wise). But if you're afraid to be airborne, kite boarding may not be
for you. As Doug Cox has mentioned to me a few times "You'll scare
yourself pretty good", he knows I like a good scare ;*). He also says
"kite boarding is as dangerous as YOU make it", but then he's got a
full skull scar too (not kite board related).

The kite boarders here are some of the best I've seen, but just like
a windsurfer, there are occasional mandatory unplanned airs. If you like
the no gravity feeling, Kite boarding might be your bit.

I don't know how "surfy" a kite board is (yet), but one of the things I like
about windsurfing is riding big swell. It's not so much speed related,
but really gives me a surfing sensation, if you're looking for that,
you might wanna consider windsurfing
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
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Posts: 3394
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Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

Postby Kenny » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:51 pm

I don't know how "surfy" a kite board is (yet), but one of the things I like
about windsurfing is riding big swell. It's not so much speed related,
but really gives me a surfing sensation, if you're looking for that,
you might wanna consider windsurfing


Craig,

Kites are excellent for surfing either on swell or waves. I agree that surfing a wave is one of the best aspects of wind related sports. Good swell or waves add a "3D" effect to the whole experience. Your board speed slows as you climb a large wave and then speeds up as you drop down the other side.

I encourage you to try kiting at Skyline Drive next year. You can literally surf on the snow with a kite. When the conditions are right, it is face shots all day long and no lift lines.

Kenny
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Kenny
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Re: Getting into the Addition

Postby Mike » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:16 pm

Where and at what time is the swap meet?

I'll respond to your messages when I get home from work.
Mike
 

uWA Swap Meet

Postby Craig Goudie » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:32 pm

Swap is from 8:30-11:30 AM April 30th

@

MacLean Quality Composites
MacLean-Fogg Co.
3392 West 8600 South
West Jordan, UT USA 84088
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
User avatar
Craig Goudie
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am
Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

Postby Mike » Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:33 pm

Hmm... I might have a bit of trouble making it there. I'll see what I can do.

What would you say is more "independant" of the two sports? As in, do I need a crew of other people to get me on the water for kiteboarding or windsurfing? Can I go out on a nice windy day by myself and start kiting or windsurfing?
Mike
 

Re: Getting into the Addition

Postby Mike » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:35 pm

Craig Goudie wrote:Now for the interesting stuff. About 5 years ago, the beginner part of this
sport was revolutionized, when huge wide "short boards" ( short board is any
board without a dagger board) developed. These babies can get you sailing
in one day. You might be able to rent one from our illustrious prez, as it's
rumored that Powerex has a "Start" beginner board for rent. Call up
McClean Quality Composites and ask for Mike R. He might be able to hook
you up with a rental board. Tripp Houk was certified in teaching a while back. Don't know if he's still doing that, but he is the UWA training Chairman for windsurfing.

Look for me at the swap (Green Aerostar Van with Oregon plates). I've got
an old 170 ltr BIC Samba. It won't be nearly as pleasant to learn on, but
I'll let it go really really cheap, and there are probably 20 UWA members
that have a similar board they'd want to get rid of ;*)

I bet with a little luck you might be able to get totally set up for a couple
3 hundred bucks.

Welcome to the world of adrenaline junkies.


Thanks for that info!

How does this look to you? http://www.utahwindriders.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47

How much is really really cheap? Even if you can't tell me, a generalized figure would be cool. Should I bring cash to the meet if I do decide to come or is there going to be a some sort of way to pay with a debit card? I DO want to rent before I actually buy, and that deal that John has going on (in the above link) looks like a great idea.

Let's say I got started on the START board. And I eventually became quite comfortable with it. How would the transition to your board be? How well does it perform?

Oh yes... Can I actually get a good workout from windsurfing?

Thanks guys,

Mike
Mike
 

Postby rocketboy52 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:24 am

Mike,
If you want to see some pics of Jared and I at Utah Lake kitesurfing, check out this web page:

http://www.lassenboards.com/Pictures/La ... /index.htm

I ripped my kite while I was out riding last Thurs. and took some video of Jared and Arpi riding. The wind was light so they weren't able to pull big air, but I still got some fun shots. I'll edit the video and post it in the next few days.
Cheers,
Erik
rocketboy52
 

Postby Craig Goudie » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:08 am

Both sports are extremely independant, in fact they seem to lure
independant type personalities. You can do the whole of either,
by yourself, virtually anywhere but .........................

It's much easier to launch and land a kite board with an additional
person on the beach for help. You don't need help with a windsurfer.

You need space (like a couple hundred feet of open space) to easily launch
a kite board. I've jumped off of fairly gnarley boulders between tight
trees launching my windsurfer ;*)

and finally, while most of us (both Kite boarders and Windsurfers)do go
out by ourselves often, there is risk in both sports, and it's good to
have some support (someone needs to bring the body back ;*) )

Mike wrote:Hmm... I might have a bit of trouble making it there. I'll see what I can do.

What would you say is more "independant" of the two sports? As in, do I need a crew of other people to get me on the water for kiteboarding or windsurfing? Can I go out on a nice windy day by myself and start kiting or windsurfing?
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
User avatar
Craig Goudie
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am
Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

Re: Getting into the Addition

Postby Craig Goudie » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:28 am

Mike wrote:How does this look to you? http://www.utahwindriders.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47


That is the perfect board to learn on. It's like a dance floor, and John
is always worth dealing with. Even though he'll give you a backyard lesson
(which is an excellent way to start) I'd recommend you have somebody with
you at the water (that knows windsurfing), when you go.


Mike wrote:How much is really really cheap? Even if you can't tell me, a generalized figure would be cool. Should I bring cash to the meet if I do decide to come or is there going to be a some sort of way to pay with a debit card? I DO want to rent before I actually buy, and that deal that John has going on (in the above link) looks like a great idea.

Let's say I got started on the START board. And I eventually became quite comfortable with it. How would the transition to your board be? How well does it perform?

Oh yes... Can I actually get a good workout from windsurfing?

Thanks guys,

Mike


Really Really cheap is like ~$30. This would be a BIC Samba board with
skeg and straps. It is 170 ltrs, and has a center board. It will not be
nearly as easy to learn on as John's Start, but many a Utah windrider
has learned on my very board. You can ride this board into more advanced
winds, but this is a prewideboard revolution long board, and as such isn't going to
work as well for either beginner learning or advanced windsurfing as something like a Starboard Start. It has no issues. There are probably
30 boards out in UWA garages right now that are the same.

My Samba is good from 7.5 to 5.5 conditions, It's got a very forgiving ride
in chop for a big board. Once again any board from the current technology
will be better in all conditions except for sub planing < 10 MPH. Then the
dagger board can get you back to your starting point much more easily.

Bring cash to the swap.

You can get as much of a workout as you want, from almost no effort
harnessed BAF (back and forth) sailing to serious cardio (continuous tricks,
or wave/swell riding). You get to pick.
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
User avatar
Craig Goudie
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am
Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

UL Kite Board pics

Postby Craig Goudie » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:11 am

Eric,

Would you mind if I linked the UWA top page "Post Cards from the Dark
Side" to your pictures? The current ones are getting as stale as week old
fish.

-Craig

Erik Lassen wrote:Mike,
If you want to see some pics of Jared and I at Utah Lake kitesurfing, check out this web page:

http://www.lassenboards.com/Pictures/La ... /index.htm

I ripped my kite while I was out riding last Thurs. and took some video of Jared and Arpi riding. The wind was light so they weren't able to pull big air, but I still got some fun shots. I'll edit the video and post it in the next few days.
Cheers,
Erik
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
User avatar
Craig Goudie
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am
Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

Postby Mike » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:19 pm

My Samba is good from 7.5 to 5.5 conditions


What do those numbers mean?
Mike
 

Re: UL Kite Board pics

Postby rocketboy52 » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:52 pm

[quote="Craig Goudie"]Eric,

Would you mind if I linked the UWA top page "Post Cards from the Dark
Side" to your pictures? The current ones are getting as stale as week old
fish.

-Craig

[quote="Erik Lassen"]

No probelm Craig,
I'd be flattered.
Cheers,
Erik
rocketboy52
 

Postby Craig Goudie » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:03 am

Quick background: Wind force driven sport. More (or less) wind means
different gear (sails, boards, and fins). Sport has 2 modes (planing and
slogging). Planing = board up on a plane, only about the last 1/3 of the
board even contacts the water. This is the goal for most, but not all,
windsurfers. Slogging = displacement mode, slow.
Physics dictate that if you start from 0 MPH you must go through the
displacement mode to get to the planing mode.

To learn, you spend a few days in the displacement mode learning how
the sail and board react to wind and water. For an medium sized adult male
a 5.0 (that's 5 square meters of sail area) and 6 MPH winds are premium.
No planing will occur, and you can learn without a lot of fear or tension.

The below numbers are sail sizes in square meters, and would allow an
average sized male (say 175 lbs) to plane off in winds between 15 and 25
MPH. This board will carry those sails comfortably. Board sailors tend
to think of wind in sail size, because the sport is force driven.

Above 25MPH (5.5) this board will bounce and be very hard to control.
For sails larger than 7.5 (winds below 15 MPH) the fin that comes with the
board is just too small, to counter the sail force while planing.

But below 15 MPH you can slog around all you want on sail sizes anywhere
between 7.5 and 5.5. During the learning process smaller sails are easier
to get up and out of the water to get under way.

Savvy?

Mike wrote:
My Samba is good from 7.5 to 5.5 conditions


What do those numbers mean?
Craig Goudie
Sailing the high desert lakes of Utah on my:
150 Sumo, 8'6"RRD TT, 8'2"Cross M
with Sailworks/Naish Sails

Sailing the Gorge on my:
9'1"RRD Freeride, 7'9" Open Ocean Slasher, 8'0"Hitech
with Northwave Sails
User avatar
Craig Goudie
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:53 am
Location: Most Likely--Doug's Beach

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