"Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

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"Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby rob umstead » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:36 pm

Uinta Kiting is now offering Kiteboarding lessons at Deer Creek. We are the first and only school to be approved and permitted by the State Park for kite instruction on the reservoir. Our goal is to make safe and independent riders and help them progress in the sport. If you have spouses or friends who want to learn please send them our way. Check out our website at www.uintakiting.com. or call 435-647-6676.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby rob umstead » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:34 pm

June Special!
Book a lesson before the end of the month and get 15% off.
www.uintakitng.com
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:32 am

The kiting community here has has been very vocal about not having kiteboarding lessons at Deer Creek. Trainer kites are a different matter. It is a very dangerous launch, especially for beginners. It is straight onshore with obstacles and very unpredictable winds. You should seriously reconsider your attempt to teach lessons at Deer Creek. You will likely encounter great opposition from the many long-time local kiters. The fact that we don't know who you are makes this endeavor highly suspect.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby Jon Manwaring » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:53 am

Hey Morton,
Lighten up on Rob, He's a Long time Gorge kiter, Winter Utah resident (ski coach), Good Husband and Father, and an All Around Good Guy.
As far as your comments about lessons at DC, I feel we all Agree. However, Don was teaching there the other day and kept his students well down wind from where we all launch and land.
I guess it all boils down to individual responsibility and consideration of others.
My 2 cents worth.
Remember I'm one of the Grandpa's (RIP MARTY)
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:08 am

John-
Thanks for the reply and comment. To ADVERTISE here and anywhere else to teach kiting at a KNOWN dangerous kite spot is absolutely irresponsible. Others may teach a lesson here or there under the radar but this guy is coming out and claiming all other kite schools are illegal. Which they are. I don't condone teaching at Deer Creek by anyone. But to go to the Deer Creek concession and set this up without ever seeking consent from the kiting community is just lame. And why would he not teach at Utah Lake? Because he is lazy and won't drive there. The guy is not an established Utah kiter. I don't care how much gorge experience he has. He rarely comes out and kites here. He is only in it for the dollar, obviously. I'm sure our beloved Marty would think this is a joke.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby Jon Manwaring » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:22 am

EXCUSE ME ;))
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:58 am

No offense to you John I love you!!
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby RonBert » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:25 pm

N/A
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:30 pm

Ron-
I'm all about new kiters coming to DC and kiting. And I am friendly to all. And you are right that he can do whatever he wants. But to advertise kiting at DC at a known dangerous spot is irresponsible and wrong. Kind of like you advertising kite sizes in thunderstorm winds when you actually didn't even kite at all. I don't go around boasting 7m winds when I don't go out. Maybe you should have drove 20 min and kited DC on 12m today like the rest of us did instead of stewing over this issue and trying to impress us with your vast knowledge of park service land management and cumulonimBS. Your kiting credentials are lackluster at best Ron "the beater" Bert. Have a nice summer at Strawberry.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby RonBert » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:57 pm

N/A
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:49 am

Ron Bert I would use the search funtion to answer your own inquiry, and I deleted my post because you seem Like you wanted to argue and belittle others online, ( per your opening paragraph responding to Jason) and that gets us no where.

Jason Morton... Now where have I crossed that name. Oh that's right.

Was He the team North sponsored Speed sailor, helping set world records and dictate the direction of speed sailing on Maui?

Or was he the roommate of Ellot L. and Lou Wainman while they were all pioneering kite boarding in the 90's on Maui.

Or is it Jason Morton US Telemark team member?

Or Jason Morton multiple time nominee as the utahwindrider chair person, because of his kind and courteous persona.

Or Jason Morton the life long sailor, who spotted and identified, a massive squall during the Utah summer games, his fast thinking, and actions resulted in all Kiters getting of the water safely, while all but a single sailboat ( out of a 20 boat fleet) was beached capsized, or required professional rescue. ( I tried to launch 4m and was also ,thankfully. reeled in).

Or Jason Morton the US GPS speed kiting record holder (at or own rush lake).

Or Jason Morton one of the Pioneer LOCAL kiters who have insured access to all of the spots we currently use, through public discussion and fair and just community decisions?

Is this the Jason Morton?

I would highly recommend searching this topic, in the past when kiters used this website it has been covered numerous times... I have not used this website in a year, and do not plan on responding.

I personally have taught a t DC and have contributed my input on this topic in the past, a search will provide this info.

I see Nothing wrong with Jason's concerns and Hope we can utilize Community input to satisfy any concerns on all sides. DC is a dangerous spot and has had numerous injuries, and accidents.

In the past gorge style, boat, or water craft supported lesson have been the safest On DC.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bradsaxe » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:08 pm

Well I probably have no place responding to this as I am not longer LOCAL (if in fact I ever was) but I can't help it in this case. I was one of those voices some time ago against teaching lessons at DC. The hazards have been enumerated and the wind can be of poor quality which makes it a less than ideal spot for learning. For me my stance was mostly based on the practices of "instructors" and "students" that I witnessed there. The one thing I still remember from my IKO training was that the student never leaves for the beach without a signed waiver, a helmet and a PDF. The total disregard for these made me suspect of the lessons (that were revenue generating endeavors) that I often saw. Teaching right on the beach in shallow water directly in front of the egress is not just a safety hazard it's not setting your student up for success. I always said boat or ski (not an SUP) assisted lessons in deep water were another matter - as safe as kiting can be on DC.

Now Jason I have to say you have it wrong here on your judgement of the owner of this school and to me there was talk in your original reply that wasn't very characteristic of the Jason I remember. Maybe I can help clarify who he is, what his qualifications are and maybe even his LOCAL status.

I have known Rob since 1995. Like me he sailed boats as a youth. We used to work and sail together in Oregon every summer. We started kiting together- in fact he just told me he donated our original Fuel 8m to Marty's Memorial Fund. I was with Rob in Caberete in 2004 when he received his IKO level 1. I continued to kite with him for many years after that in the Gorge, Maui, the DR, and other locations while he developed his reputation as a skilled instructor for New Wind back when Bison was just starting out. He was the best man at my wedding and I at his. He has been a Park City resident, property owner, tax payer for 10 years.

You may not recognize him when you see him on the beach because he doesn't make a spectacle of himself and, oh yeah, he has a family and has been busy raising his son while training with his visually impaired wife for skiing racing in the the Vancouver and Sochi Paraolympics. Two Olympics, three medals (hope I got that right), World Championship and World Cup victories and discipline titles are peppered throughout. So do forgive him for not being able to kite 12m at DC with you every 3rd day because he may have had to pick his kid up at school after their workout. His day job for the last 6 years, much as his one from 15 or so years before that, has not allowed him to meet up with you at Strawberry too. Just because you don't know him doesn't make him a non-local.

Rob has the experience to run a kite school. He has a boat. He is not going to clog the beach with a helmet-less student. He has been a coach in athletics as a profession for over 20 years and a kite instructor for over 10 years. He has been planning this for some time- carefully overcoming all of the obstacles the state put in his way, getting the right or permission for this concession on this water way, earning his captain's license, purchasing new quivers of up to date equipment, etc. etc. He is authorized by the DNR to do it. For you to say that he is "irresponsible and wrong" is pretty far off the mark. Calling him lazy and saying he was all about money is mostly just ignorance and I guess that is forgivable but it does in fact upset me.

Should he have talked to you or any other kiter before launching this enterprise? That's really for you to decide but hadn't heard that was a requirement to starting a business except maybe in Mafia controlled territory for something elicit.

What would Marty have thought? I'm not sure that is for anyone to ponder either but since he knew Rob from back when he, John, Jeffery and Vern would come out to Rufus every summer my suspicion is that if he had a issue with it he would have talked to Rob directly rather than air it out here.

Sorry if I interjected into a discussion I should have no part in and I apologize if I have said too much. I am certainly willing to admit that I may not know the most up to date issues that exist at DC but it doesn't seem to me that a legitimate school with an IKO instructor cannot fit in safely from what I know.

-Maybe we will see you guys in OR this summer.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:50 am

Brad- It's good to hear from you. We miss having you guys here. Sorry you had to post under such poor circumstances. I thought of you regarding this issue at Deer Creek, actually. Ironic that Rob is one of your best friends. I do by no means want to portray a mafioso mentality to newcomers to the kite scene here. I am against that. It's stupid and wrong. I am still the same person just slightly crusted over, currently. What I meant by being a LOCAL kiter is a person who has been around, knows the issues we have faced, and who has been a positive contributor to our community. Someone who has our best interests in mind and who wants to PRESERVE ACCESS. You and Trina were locals by my definition. I was a weekend kiter at Deer Creek for ten years working a 50+ hour a week job. There are alot of guys and gals with jobs/families who still manage to become part of the kite community. Rob hasn't even introduced himself to anyone at the beach as far as I know. I'm sure you can understand the level of frustration when some guy noone knows all of a sudden posts on the UWA(his 5th post) that he is starting a kite school at Deer Creek. The upsetting thing is that he didn't even consider or make an attempt to talk to anyone from the KITE COMMUNITY. Did he even consider our kite community, history, access issues? If he had us in mind I'm sure he would have, at the very least, made an attempt to talk to someone. He certainly has the credentials as an instructor. And he is probably a good guy. We really do need a real kite school here in Utah. I could personally refer many people to such a school. I get asked all the time. Deer Creek is not the place, however. And I think you would agree if you weren't biased on the matter. I have to wonder if an IKO examiner(does such a thing exist?) would pass off Deer Creek as a safe place to kite? I am sure the answer is no. Late in the summer we have a large beach area which is much safer but the wind is still onshore. ONSHORE wind has always been a no no to kiteboarding safety. The water gets deep fast. There are lots of rocks, logs, metal contraptions in the water and on land. You are aware of the poor beach conditions. There is no buffer and students will be flying kites just feet from shore. Now combine that with very poor wind quality. You have to pay extra for boat assisted kite lessons according to his website. And I actually do think there is an element of laziness in regards to him not even advertising Utah Lake as a lesson option. Has he ever kited at Utah Lake? It is the best and SAFEST spot here. You know this as well. We have tried very hard to fly under the radar at Deer Creek. Of course that's a little hard with these things 40 meters in the sky. But now he has OFFICIALLY and SINGLE-HANDEDLY put us in the spot-light by contacting the State Park. If there is ANY issue at Deer Creek with kiteboarding they will now go to Rob. Should Rob be the voice of our kite community? I personally would not want the responsibility of access at Deer Creek resting on my shoulders. I am currently teaching my girlfriend to kite. I won't even consider teaching her at Deer Creek. I want her to be safe and set her up for success. This is easily achieved at South Sandy Beach.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby Ralph Morrison » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:29 am

I have some problems with this situation so here's my 2 cents.
I have a problem with someone starting a business who doesn't know the locals, the lake and it's issues.

Barbwire Beach would still be a pasture if locals hadn't established it.
The reasons Rob got his concession is because locals developed a viable launch and policed ourselves so now we are a respectable group in the eyes of the DNR. We wouldn't have that respect if we didn't take issue with all the problems of the past (and this one).

The fact that Rob hasn't approached any of us says to me that he doesn't care.

I have a problem with businesses using public property. It's ok if there is enough room for everybody, but when the business competes for space with the actual users then there is a problem. Especially when the business thinks they're more important. I was climbing in Big Cottonwood Canyon. Sandra and I were setting up and suddenly an instructor and 15 students show up. The instructor who thought I couldn't hear him said to one of the students "we'll run these people out of here". They thought they were more important than us and they ruined our experience. And this was on public land.

When the business is putting too many people in a cramped area and ruining the experience of the users, then it makes no sense to teach more people.

BWB is our only launch on Deer Creek. There are no others. We have nowhere else to go.
Please don't ruin our launch.
Last edited by Ralph Morrison on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby RonBert » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:41 am

Well as some (bordy) think my previous posts contentious and belittling, they were meant to be in kind. Though I did not intend to disrupt the forum, and for bordy's apparent concern for Jason’s reputation, which I was not calling into question, I removed my initial remarks. Yet by removing them I seem to have abandoned others who informed me of their similar view point, and I apologize. I and others interpreted what he said from a different perspective. And I appreciate your most recent post Jason. And though you may not feel the need to explain yourself to me, I understand now your concerns, and most importantly your rationale. I joined UWA to be involved in the local kite community, as I am elsewhere, lackluster in my kiting as I am.

And bordy, as I PMed you, I'm not questioning Jason's credentials, and he appears more than qualified to voice his opinion, which should carry significant weight. I am the first to admit my own kiting skills suck compared to most (so stand clear). However, opinions without facts or rationale do not form the basis for sound decisions, and arrogant condescending banter is not an expression of wisdom (except in my case:). So I would urge you bordy to do the search you suggest of past forum discussions on the topic, and assemble what you believe to be the relevant dangers and hazards at DC, edit out the opinion and fluff, submit it to others with the knowledge and experience to peer review (like the UWA moderators, and those they see fit to include), and then post it on the UWA website for the benefit of the rest of us.

With the apparent concern with safe kiting at DC, perhaps the UWA, as a community service, would consider erecting a sign at DC to the effect: “Kiteboarding can be dangerous. This kiting location has particular hazards. If you are learning to kite, please seek professional instruction before attempting to kite here. Please see the UWA {web address} for safe kiting information and profession instruction at this location.”

To restrict all teaching at DC seems extreme. Certainly it is teachable grounds with caution and consideration. Concern for people making money off the sport and instruction, just not at DC, or the exposure, well that ship I suspect has sailed. Teaching and wanting to learn to kite at DC instead of UL, or as an alternative, is for the same reason people do not travel to UL (or Strawberry, which is safer) to kite, they are not as convenient as DC; likely too UL instruction competition is horrendous. Rob’s venture seems a very controlled and thought out option, and perhaps will curb more erroneous learning episodes from cropping up at DC. I am sure he would have addressed your concerns Jason, but you did not initially express them, and really made it difficult for him to even respond. Hopefully, with your current post that can be resolved.
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