Rush Lake Fence

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Rush Lake Fence

Postby Marty Lowe » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:23 am

Jacob Buzianis wrote:WTC Jason! I talk Jesse about it. Jesse said BLM will lets us take the fence out of the water. BLM own the waterarea and the shore. IF the water rise and the fence is in the way, the public has the right to remove it. Jesse said we don't need to talk to the Ranchers. I would call BLM first to make sure on that.

PUNK!


I talked to Randy Griffin BLM Ranger about the fence on Rush Lake.
He said the fence had to be authorized by the BLM if it is on BLM property.
Question is, Is it on BLM property. He suggested going into BLM office 2370 S 2300 W SLC.
Randy suggested going in to the office and pointing out the exact location of the fence.
Mike Nelson is the Reality guy there and would know the answers.

If the fence is on private property or authorized by BLM,
our only option is working with rancher.
cattle will go into water and go around fences, we may be S.O.L.

If the fence is legal, and it is removed without authorization, it is illegal,
or worse, ranchers see that as fighting activity. (GUNS)

If I can leave work, I'll go to the office, but anyone else that knows where the fence is,
is more than welcome to go.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby brian.doubek » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:16 pm

Here is an aerial of Rush with the BLM property boundary. Everything inside the blue dashed polygon is owned by the BLM. I have not seen the fence yet, could anyone locate it on this photo?. IF you know where it is and can draw the location in Google Earth then send me the line you drew (.kmz file) I will email a map to the BLM and ask them what they think. You could also send me GPS coordinates if you have them. bridoubek@yahoo.com
Rush_BLM_samll.jpg
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby jason morton » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:36 pm

Brian-
Not sure how to do what you are asking on google earth but from looking at your map it appears that the fence IS on private property. It is on the blue line extending into the lake from the east and just upwind of of where we launch. That line is at the right location for where the fence is. Bummer.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby Mark Johnson » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:58 pm

I just got back from rush and the only fence I could see was all the way to the other side from where we launch. I couldnt see anything that cossed the lake. There was no wind and I didnt get in the water so maybe I just couldnt see it?
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby Kenny » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:13 pm

Mark,

You saw the same fence. It doesn't extend very far into the lake and is not a huge deal, could be a pain on crowded days. I just stay at least 50 yards up wind from it. If we can't take it out, we should attach some fluorescent streamers to it. It could be a real hazard to someone not paying attention.

Kenny
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby Marty Lowe » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:42 pm

The fence does not go all the way across.
Like Jason pointed out, it looks like it is on the blue line, then stops in the middle.
we're SCREWED..

All we can do is make an offer to the land owner.
But I grew up around ranchers, I doubt there will be anything to negotiate.
I can't think of anything we would have to offer him.
He doesn't want any cattle to get loose, It's his livelihood.

For now, I agree with Kenny, let's get th posts marked.

-Marty 8)
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby jason morton » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:37 am

I want to point out that the fence is not really a fence at all. It is a series of fence posts and offers no containment or deterrant to livestock. The one piece of wire has sagged under the water and cows and kiters can cross between the posts. I counted 17 posts with an estimated distance of 30-40 ft. The total length would be between 510ft- 680ft. That is a significant distance, whether it entends all the way across the lake or not. We need to explain to the rancher how DANGEROUS the fence is as nicely as possible. We could offer to remove and replace the fence in the fall and/or offer money. The UWA could help with this, I hope. We could also offer additional labor services to stay on the good side of the rancher.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby MikE mAy » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:25 am

sounds like a good idea jason. take down the fence, or help come up with some temporary fence in the fall/winter if he needs it. i think the best solution would be to get ahold of the rancher and see exactly why he has a fence errected there and what possible comprimise we can reach that will satisfy both of our needs. it seems that as this valley gets more and more populated the more "multi-use" areas are going to have to be utilized. this lake is no exception. we both have our needs and i can't see why we both can't optimize the usage of it. we are an organized group with somewhat of a budget to put back into the community to raise awareness of kiteboarding as well as further utilize our waterways for our sports.

is it just me not paying attention per normal, or is there really cattle out there? i can't seem to remember any. i never got down to that end of the lake though. i wonder what time of the year he has cattle there? it seems most ranchers put their herd out to pasture for the summer somewhere and only round them up and contain them at the ranch in the spring and winter.

to me, a wire below the water's surface is more dangerous than one you can see. people might get lazy as the season progresses and the lake gets crowded and try and ride between the posts. a subsurface wire could break legs or worse if hit while riding....

anyone know how to get ahold of the rancher other than simply driving out to his house? perhaps we should arrange for a couple of our finest to pay him a visit and sit down and see what sort of comprimise we can reach...
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby lesvierra » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:38 pm

When and if you can get a meeting with the owner of the fence and property, you might want to point out the liability issue of having fence posts sticking out of the water next to a kiteboarding riding area. Kiteboarding and fence posts dont mix and it is an accident waiting to happen. In the US anyone can sue anyone for just about anything, win or lose, if brought to court both sides lose a lot of money. A land owner should be sensitive to potential liability issues that could arrise from the posts. It would be another reason for him to work with kiters to come up with a solution rather to work against kiters.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby btjsfca » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:18 pm

I'd say threatening someone with the potential for leagal liability is simply not a way to make friends. I'd recommend leaving this bit of information WAY off the table. It would be so much better if we concentrated on being a friend to the rancher and instead offer a guarantee that no one will attempt to hold him liable. Who knows? Maybe the fence was put up to keep kiters from getting hurt on his land and holding him accountable (although the possiblility seems admittedly remote).

I'd be curious to know how much water area is roped off by this fence. If it seems like not too much, we could maybe move the fence to the current shoreline and the rancher won't lose too much grazing area, if that's what the "fence" is there for.

And I agree with Mike, a submerged wire seems more dangerous to me.

-J
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby brian.doubek » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:08 pm

The white boxes are parcel boundaries from Toole County. The names and addresses are for the owners, not necessarily the ranchers or fence builders. Anyone know any of these people?
Not sure why the Patricia Wheeler parcel overlaps the BLM. the BLM boundary is most likely correct.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby Marty Lowe » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:00 pm

So it looks like we should mail a kind letter to the 3 adjacent owners.
Official letter head from UWA.
Let's start a draft on this post.
Then have our fearless leaders send the letter.

Suggested points...

1) face to face meeting with 1 or 2 of our best communicators. (Some old farts may have better chance)

2) discuss options for the safety of windriders using Rush Lake.

4) Flowers, beer, gas cards, or some kind of gift on first personal meeting.

4)???

Questions to ask...

1) Is it possible to remove and replace fence?

2) Is fence for livestock, or just to divide boundaries.

3)???

-Marty 8)
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby MikE mAy » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Marty-

i like the jibe of your sail!

a letter would be a great non confrontational way to get them the info that their "fence" is impacting our recreating on BLM land. they might have the chance to re-think what they have done away from the stress of having guests in their house with this request that may have not even occured to them. i most definintely would not even think about any sort of legal wording in the letter. legal ramification could be our backup if things get nasty which we should avoid at all costs.

additional points to marty's that i'd suggest:

- stress the fact that we want them to be able to utilize their land as best they can without impacting what we do. stress that we are thinking of them as highly as we are thining of our needs. this will hopefully keep them as little defensive as possible.

- stress the fact that we recognize that there will be work or money involved in moving what has already been set up and we will help with this in some form whether it be manpower or money (preferably manpower).

- be good neighbors and stress that we have been using this lake for X years without signifigant impact on the land, litter, pollution, noise, etc. and will continue to be respectful neighbors. they have to give us some credibility for this....
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby brian.doubek » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:10 pm

I think writing a letter is a good idea however, it is likely that the people who own the land have no idea what is happening on the land. My guess is that Willow Springs LLC has leased the land to a rancher who put up the fence. Since it's all we have to go on at the moment we should send letters to the addresses listed and go from there.
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Re: Rush Lake Fence

Postby lesvierra » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:22 pm

I agree threatening with legal problems is not the way to make freinds, and creating a good report is the way to get started, we can work together to "help them" not be liable for any future accidents. They might be appreciative. But I'll leave that to whoever meets with them. Just a suggestions to put into the bag-o-negotions.

I did some research and made some calls to help find the right contact.

This is shown on the forum map, I think the critical property in question:

Willow Springs Real Estate Est LLC
981 N Industrial Parker Dr
Grantsville UT 84029

I did a reverse look up and called the phone number for this address. They are a construction company located at this address and didnt have any idea what I was talking about when I mentioned the above LLC and Rush Lake. This map may have old info on it. I dont think we will get anywhere with this address.

I did a Willow Springs look up on the Utah Commerce website, two hits may be worth checking into,

Willow Springs, LLC in Grantsville
GARY L FAWSON
435.884.1936

I gave Gary a call and left a message, Les from UWA researching some land ownership info adjacent to Rush Lake. Gary's LLC is a "lesor of Real Estate" or an organization that has been designated to lease land. Hopefully this is the owner.

Willow Springs Real Estate LLC (Est not seen), belongs to
SCOTT L SOELBERG
1935 N 270 E
Orem, UT 84057
(801) 226-2905

Scott L SoelBerg Law Office also listed
work (801)494-8494

Also gave Scott a call and left a message.

I'll post if I hear anything. If one of these is the right contact, I'll turn it over to you guys. Any other ways to look up land ownership in Toele County (online) other than walking into the County building?
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