Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute!

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Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute!

Postby bordy » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:05 pm

We are currently looking at changes at ULLB that will limit the amount of kiters to 13 and not allow us to kite on the weekends,these changes are being made by Utah County parks dept. and have beenrecommended By the camp host Kelly who is scared of the water so you can quess what he knows about kiting..... We have hit a dead end with Roger the supervisor for the Parks. He is convienced we need to be regulated based on the reports/lies from his drunk and threatning Camp Host. I hope any kiter that uses ULLB please writes to the Comminnioner and shares their thoughts about this amazing kite spot.

PLEASE express any issues you have had with the Camp, Host Kelly Joe Nostrom, as Chris and I have discovered even with 20 plus people calling to complain to his Boss Roger about Kelly's behavior, swearing, threats and course actions, and of course his drinking and dealing with us while under the influance Chris and I have been told we are lying by his Boss Roger and County Parks secretery Becky during several calls. We were asked to stop calling becuase Roger didn't want to deal with the issue, Many people left messages and numbers and never recieved a return call...

We can only hope that letters to the Larry Ellertson can convence him of what type of employee is working as the Camp Host. And making rules about kiting while trying to be malisious to us, with out any knowledge of kiting. It is almost like he is one of Rogers Family Memebers the way Roger defends this guy...

I am expecting a phone Call from Commissioner of, public works, Larry Ellertson on Monday Please write him before then so I can ask him to read the letters and use them while making his decision about ULLB and our need to sail from there.

I invite everyone to use this thread to share not only their thoughts about how little impact we have, how we are there in the evening after work, when no one else is there, while it is windy and the boaters have gone home, how you have been treated or witnessed the Campo Host drinking swearing pushing finger pokeing etc..To help brainsstorm for writing

When you write Larry please let him know if you have picked up nails,pallets couches if you fish, boat, paddle board, swim picinic sun bath etc. Tell him about the other places we kite were we have never had issues, state parks, National Forest, Lindon,Willard, Rush, Mona,Yuba,Sand Hollow (ULLB is a county parks and have no authotiry at any other parks to try and limit access there.). Tell him about yourself your age howloung you have been using UT lake etc

This is our last oppertunity to preserve ULLB the Commissioner make the call....Done deal, the Buck stops with him.

PLEASE LETS MAKE THIS HAPPEN...

Please send your letters to Commissioner Larry Ellertson at larrye.ucadm@state.ut.us

Just a reminder the county runs the beach the state runs the water. Please do not bring up any issues and add fuel to the fire, we need to preserve access and would like you all send letters of complaint if you have some about the park host(very important, including if you spoke with Riger of left a message and never recieved a return call) and Letters opf praise for ULLB and how much you enjoy it and would it would mean to you if this launch was limited or lost..

THANKS
BB
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby ChrisPSherwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:42 pm

Hello all,

Billy and I have been working tightly together on this and any inconsistencies that you notice are most likely due to both of us hearing different things from Roger and Kelly. Kelly yesterday said that he had the authority to tell us where to set up and launch, and told Billy that we could pump up on the grass. This was less than a few hours after Roger told me that we should be launching from the beach and staying off the grass. I don't have any official recommendations at this point, but use your judgement while you are there.

I am in full support of Billy's writing campaign. Please refer only to the positive things that we have done and make sure that you focus on Kelly's behavior and Roger's unwillingness to work with people that want to recreate at a recreation area.

Billy is correct, we have hit a dead end with Roger. It seems that Roger takes his orders from Kelly and is unwilling to investigate what actually happens at Lincoln. Roger can not believe that Kelly is drinking while on duty and defends him and his policies to every degree.

I am of the opinion that Kelly makes things up to suit his whims. Billy has caught him contradicting himself and lying on numerous occasions. They night of the bocce ball "incident" he told me that he "lost" my number and acted like we were cool. I told him I would write it down again. He didn't want it. Two days later he was ranting about me owing him $600 and how he was docked $5000 in pay. He can not be trusted.

Kelly also stated that I was the one being belligerent. If you saw what was going on, please describe it. An hour investment here could pay off much more later.

Roger wanted to know why Kelly has problems with us, but nobody else. My argument is as follows...
The kids that light pallets on fire are transient in nature to the area. When they did something stupid and Kelly was belligerent to them, they left and didn't complain.
Any boater that has had a run-in with Kelly is probably launching elsewhere or comes and goes fast enough that they avoid him.
Campers most likely camp somewhere else after Kelly harasses them.

But we come back. We are not transient. Before Kelly was there, WE were the ones calling the police to get rid of pallet and couch burners. We were the ones picking up trash. And since we have a vested interest in Lincoln Beach, WE were the first to stand up to Kelly when he was drunk, belligerent and threatening. We are calling Kelly on his lies. Kelly has claimed that his pay was docked $5000 because of us. Of course he hates us. We're the ones who brought the drunkenness and poor behavior to the attention of his employers and according to him, cost him $5000. You may want to include this in your letter.

Roger's only reaction to our numerous claims that Kelly is drunk and belligerent is that we must be lying. Rather than take into account the numerous complaints about Kelly and actually investigate, Roger wants to limit or ban our sailing at ULLB. Roger, likewise has contradicted himself on numerous occasions, saying that he had only HEARD about kiters putting rocks on sprinklers, and then that he had seen it himself personally. Rather than come to Lincoln and witness what happens he is willing to take the opinion of Kelly. Ironically, as far as we know the sprinklers have been retimed at Lincoln so that they don't turn on while we are there. I haven't seen them on this year and I have never seen a kiter put a rock on a sprinkler. We're different because the one time that we did something stupid we stayed in the park and took responsibility for it - but were not willing to deal with a drunk, belligerent, yelling and swearing camp host. You may want to include that also.

We have offered to pick up trash, to help fund projects, to tightly pack our kites. We haven't packed tightly so far because very few people are ever there when we kite. We have offered to work WITH the park to make sure that EVERYONE enjoys it - NOT JUST US! And Roger will have none of it. His current options are to limit the number of kiters, the days that kiters can kite, or to just get rid of us.

Kelly continues to lay blame on us for additional things. First it was two dents. Now it's a bunch of table damage on numerous tables that we didn't cause. He blames us for a broken light, damaged trees and even claims that we physically moved a family's (bean bag?) game and chased them out of the pavilion. He told us that no ball sports were allowed in the park when we played bocce across the road in the dirt. This guy is not mentally stable!

These lies have to be countered by all of us.

When you write, please ASK FOR A RESPONSE so that you know they have seen your letter. If they don't respond, we can keep emailing until they do respond. We complied with Roger's request to stop calling thinking that it might help, but he was just trying to get rid of us. Let them know that you want a response. If they don't respond we can argue that our complaints are falling on deaf ears like before. It's time for a full court press. Please get everyone to write. If you have seen Kelly act like we have described, write a detailed description. If you are not sure that you should put something in, feel free to send it to me - spanishinfo@yahoo.com - Even if you were not there, write in support of kiting and let them know what a great community we have.

I am gathering information that might be useful to our cause, and if it pans out as expected, might be reason to write a second letter to the Commissioner.

Expect an update from myself or Billy by tomorrow at 5pm. --- Also, please post here if you sent a letter. It would be good for us to know exactly how many were sent.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Jessica Gainer » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 pm

I sent one. Thanks for being the voice for our community, guys. I appreciate it.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Kenny » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:55 pm

My recommendations:
1. Keep your letters brief and to the point. The commissioner is not going to read, long letters about all of the incidents and injustices that have taken place.
2. Letters need to be professional. Use a spell checker and proper grammar.
3. Recommend a meeting so that the commissioner can better ascertain what is really going on.

The more professional we are in our approach, the more credible we will be with the commissioner.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Marty Lowe » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:15 am

Kenny has some great points.
also
It's always about the money, always.
Point out that you buy lunch before you go kite, and dinner after you kite.
and maybe you went shopping in Spanish Fork, if the wind didn't come up.

Maybe what you do for a living, and that you are not just a "teen age skater type"
or what ever it is that we have been portrayed as.

It should be about, what we can bring to them,
not what they can give to us.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby jason morton » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:16 am

I agree with Kenny and Marty. Keep it short and professional. Maybe having an annual kiter pass is a good idea. I, for one, would be willing to pay for this. However, why should we pay when the boaters and fisherman don't have to?
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby bordy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:53 am

The camp host mentioned the future of ULLB is to be a pay to play site, what good would it be if the park dept, decides only 13 kiters on none busy weekdays...

Most of us have state parks passes it is a shame ULLB wasn't a state park then we would not have to deal with some county boys club...This would never be a issue at a state park they have rangers that are polite and professional, not drunk and belittling..If a ranger would have poked Chris n the chest while swearing and grabing him by the arm he would have been fired..Instead our camp host friend gets the resposability of how to regulate kiting??
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Marty Lowe » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:54 am

Larry Ellertson

There is an incident that has been brought to my attention that may cause Utah County to institute restrictions for kiteboarding at Lincoln Beach. There are many Kiteboarding enthusiasts that were not involved in this but would suffer greatly from losing the best water access on Utah Lake.
Utah Windriders Association is a large association for wind sport lovers. It was created over 20 years ago first for windsurfers and has since grown to include any wind sport enthusiasts including kiteboarding. The main goal is to insure access for these sports. Most of our group consists of business men, professionals, and well educated individuals. For example: I am the president and CEO of Battery Specialists Inc in SLC; other windriders are, the president and CEO of Rhodes Bake and Serve; the director of ski school at Deer Valley; There are also Dr’s and Nurses; as well as an engineer from wind turbine research at Spanish Fork canyon; to name a few.
If there are monetary concerns we may be able to have a fund raiser to donate to the park. Also, I would ask you to consider that this is a tourist attraction that brings many people from other cities, counties, states, and even other countries. I know that when I drive in from Davis County to recreate at Utah Lake I usually purchase food from restaurants in Spanish Fork before and after recreating. And if the wind does not blow as forecasted I sometimes end up shopping at many shops such as Cabellas.
Restrictions that limit the amount of kiteboarders would prevent most tourists from driving in as there would be a great chance that everyone would want to be on the water at the same time but would not be able to. UWA would love to work with you for a solution that would benefit all who enjoy Lincoln Beach.
Your response would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time regarding this issue.

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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby bordy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:19 pm

Nice work Marty, While speaking with the Camp host and asking, We had a bocce ball bounce off the cement and bounce off a table now we are talking about kiters access, this seems silly, we took resposablitiy for the table, and the dents. He clearly said...Chris maned up for it so it doesn't represent our community, the response was that we also ruin sprinklers and trees. I asked him why should a few bad apple ruin the bunch, If a Boater gets a DUI which is a crime they don't limit boating etc.... He responed with thats how it works a bad apple does spoil the bunch, "I am not allowed to ride my four wheeler or my side by side some places becuase some one else ruined it for me, It is the same for you guys, the kiters who put rocks on the sprinkler and chased the family out of the gazibo has ruined it for your group"

I am just sharing my conversation so you all know what is going down.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Craig Gawreluk » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Dear Mr. Ellertson

My name is Craig Gawreluk, I am 47 years old and I am an Engineering Manager at BD Medical in Sandy, Utah. I am a member of the UWA and I access Utah Lake to kite board from the Lincoln Beach location. It has come to my attention that there has been some negative exchange between the Camp Host and some of our Utah kite boarding associates that now is jeopardizing access to this very one of a kind location. This is unfortunate news and I hope that further group discussion can be held before any site impacting decisions are generated.

A little background on my use of the excellent Lincoln Beach location..........I generally leave directly from BD Medical in Sandy and arrive later in the day after 5:00pm when the wind is blowing and normally few non-kiting people are around as the wind generally drives them off the lake and out of Lincoln Beach site. As you know, kite boarding is a wind driven sport and so is of course quite Green in nature having minimal to no impact on the beach or water. This type of recreational activity should be embraced and accommodated, rather then face severe restriction or elimination. I would recommend a group meeting be held to discuss, understand, and recommend next steps so that kite boarders can remain at Lincoln Beach and recreate in harmony with the rest of the site's user groups.

I would very much appreciate your response, comments and scheduling of a meeting to discuss the future of Lincoln Beach.

Sincerely,
Craig Gawreluk
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby John Guay » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:13 pm

Dear Larry,

My name Is John Guay. I am writing regarding Utah Lake Lincoln Beach County Park. I am 57 years old, married, a father of 2 adult sons and a resident of Summit County. I graduated from the University of Utah in Commercial Recreation Management in 1979 and I have worked for Deer Valley Resort since it opened in 1981. I am currently the Director of Skier Services and manage a staff of 750 employees. I am also an avid kite boarder and I have enjoyed kiting at Utah Lake Lincoln Beach for many years. Due to a recent conflict between the Camp Ground Host and members of our Kite Community I understand there is chance that kiting may be restricted or banned. I would like to share my thoughts on this situation.

Most Utah kite boarders are members of the Utah Windriders Association. We are a close knit group who advocate safety and consideration of other beach goers at the locations we kite. Most of us are mature, working adults who love outdoor recreation. Utah Lake Lincoln Beach offers one of the best locations in the State for safe access and superb kiting conditions. We typically look for north wind in the late afternoon and evening hours when the park is at low capacity. The Camp Host has expressed concern about a variety of issues. If we can be given the opportunity to work with with the Camp Host and Ranger I feel we can set some guidelines for kiters which can resolve these issues without restricting our access.

I appreciate your consideration in this matter and look forward to your response.

Best regards,

John Guay
--
John Guay
Director of Skier Services
Deer Valley Resort
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Jason Klein » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:43 pm

Dear Mr. Ellertson,

It has come to my attention that an incident occurred a few weeks ago at Lincon Beach that may jeapordize my ability to participate in kiteboarding activites at this location. I was not present that day, so I won't comment on the disagreement that transpired. What I do want to bring to your attention is some information about the group of people that take part in this sport here in Utah. I am 48 years old, I'm a CPA and CFA charterholder, and I work as an investment advisor in Salt Lake City for one of the largest brokerage firms in the nation. Among my friends that also kite are a schoolteacher, a nurse, an established SLC business owner, a ski company executive, and energy consultant and an engineer, to name but a few. I point this out to demonstrate that we are not a group of inconsiderate thugs. For the most part we are hardworking people with families who try to spend a few hours per week enjoying a sport that we love.

In case you are not familiar with kiteboarding, it requires significant winds, generally 15mph or greater. Due to thermal wind flow trends, wind at or above this speed at Lincoln Beach in the spring through fall timeframe will almost always occur between 5pm and 9pm, and is always wind coming from the north. This means that we use the beach only on windy and cold evenings, conditions that boaters and other beach users want to avoid. Said another way, we are there only when almost no other beach users are present or want to be present. These wind conditions only occur 6-8 days per month. Also, Lincoln Beach is the safest location on Utah Lake for us to kiteboard. A kiter can occasionally tangle his own lines while on the water, so Lincoln Beach's proximity to the south end of the lake prevents a kiter from drifting the entire length of the lake if he encounters such an issue (we use Utah Lake only in winds from the north). To us, these are ideal conditions and we view Lincoln Beach as the best location for kiting on Utah Lake. We truly consider it a gem.

We, along with other windsport enthusiasts, have long been organized as a not-for-profit group called Utah Windriders Association (UWA). I would like to propose that we set up a meeting between you, county parks officials, and reprentatives from the UWA so that you can fully understand our sport, the amount and timing of our use of Lincoln Beach, and the great people involved. I would greatly appreciate an acknowlegement that you have received and read this letter. Also, if I can provide any further information, please feel free to call me at 435-647-6267.

Sincerely,

Jason Klein, CFA®
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby ChrisPSherwin » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:14 pm

Hi guys! Thanks for all of your efforts on the writing front. I wish had more info, but nothing really to post here.

One thing though - people keep writing about "The incident" that might lead us to getting banned. A reader unfamiliar with the topic sees "incident" and "us getting banned" and quickly associates the two - making us look like we really did something wrong. We didn't, and I would like to make sure that we all use language that doesn't make it even look that way slightly. It's semantics and it's my two cents.

We put (2 maybe 3?) two millimeter dents the size of a quarter into a metal picnic table. I took ownership of it immediately.

We didn't cause an incident that might get us banned. We stood up to a drunk, belligerent and threatening camp host that harassed us, swore at us in front of a toddler and told us that he made policy and would get rid of us after we made a simple mistake and agreed to take care of it. Kelly and his boss Roger, the lies that Kelly has told and Roger's refusal to even accept that what WE are saying might be true is what is causing the possibility of us getting banned. I'm trying to think of a reasonable person that would boot a group of people from a park, after one person agreed to take care of several small dents in a picnic table.

All of you that have written so far have been very professional and helpful. Thank you. We are all on the same team with a common goal. Let's make it happen!
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby bordy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:28 pm

Gotta support Chris, here a Drunk camp host screamed the F word twenty plus times Poked Chris in the chest- dragged him by his sleave screaming in his ear, in front of twenty plus people. This was not a conflict or a incident it was assult of a memember of our community, when a complant was filed, the Camp host tried to pick a fight with eight people the next day claiming we had cost him 5000 dollars, we should have called the police this person should have been arrested...We thought we could deal with it with the Parks dept. We were wroung... This is more then a Incident this was outlandish behavior from a County Employee...One of Larry's employees now this same employee is being giving the chance to set policy about us kiting there...He should have been arrested and fired.
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Re: Save ULLB letter to the Commissioner! Please contribute

Postby Jason Klein » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:36 pm

i got a reply from larry:

"I am just learning of this issue. I am pursuing it with the intent of addressing our problem and to allow your continued use of the lake. Larry."
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