Utah Windriders Association

checked out the HQ demo at the home depot fields for a little bit. wind was light. it was nice to get some time on a foil and learn why i like my LEI's so much. it was fun to play with all the different models and sizes in the light wind however. watched bill and others try and recreate that batwing kite ballet video and let a friend get exposed. Steve M was a lunatic on the small foils, even flying a 5 meter fast enough to pull him around for a bit.

then, a bunch of us- todd, eric, jason, and some others that i didn't konw from hood river went up to Echo on Eric's suggestion. the wind was coming south south west and funneled just perfectly across the frozen lake. every fisherman we asked about wind down on the lake thought we were talking about fishing and gave us all sorts of useless information on what fish they were catching, how big, etc.
anyway, perfect 12 meter weather down on the ice with about 3-4 inches of fluffy snow on top. that was the first time i have really gotten to play around with speed. i'm now addicted. so all in all, a poor day turned out great. while the ice wasn't that forgiving to fall on, the flat surface and smooth winds allowed lots of good practice time for tricks. and playing around with speed. with 7-9 kiters out there, i'm sure we gave the fishers a good show.

thanks Eric!

No worries Mike! good to meet you and ride. What a great couple of sessions. I could not believe the snow was better on the lake than in PC. Creamy deluxe!

What was your timeframe on Echo and where did you launch from?

Thanks

came in from the coalville exit, and drove north thru coalville. This road puts you on the east side of the res. there were 3 area's where ice fisherman were parked. We parked at the middle one, just because it seemed to be the easiest place to make our way down to the ice. The res was completely frozen, we could rode all the way from the east shore to the west shore. We were there from maybe 1pm to 4:30, giver or take.

Nice location when the wind works. The valley there runs more or less north/south, so i would think the wind would work on either of those. Great day of speed runs and floaty airs. I found out the hard way that there was only about 4-5 inches of snow over the ice. nice texture for cruising, but it hurt pretty bad if you blow the landing. overall a great day.

Mike,

If you ever want a convincing argument for staying away from foils, try droping a foil in some Scrub Oak sometime - I am just glad that I did not have my hook knife with me or my bridles might have gotten the axe treatment.

Seriously, foils have their place, they fly differently than a LEI, so it takes some getting used to the nuances. The more efficient foils have less drag than an LEI and some have more depower as well. The setup and take down time can be a lot faster on a foil if you are precise in your packing.

Kenny

i guess my gripes with foils are simply like you said learnign how to fly them. i had my timing way off on jumps and my friend came to take pictures so that made it all that much more frustrating. it's hard to qualm the urge to be a photoslut. but really, the foils had more "grunt" down deep in the wind window which i'm not used to i guess. the bularoos have the same feeling. perhaps its different aspect ratios. either way, it always throws me way off when i get on soemthing with more grunt. you have to fly the kite higher to get the feeling i like on snow. perhaps they fly upwind easier and i'm used to a waroo type kite where you have to fight a bit more to keep upwind. i felt like on the foil if i had the kite low at all i had to super power my edges to hold my ground. in retrospect i was always further upwind than i thought i was. i also felt like the montana was very slow. i was on a 12 though, and saw how fast the smaller sizes flew so that can be dismissable perhaps.

i do like the easy launch, easy landing, packability for backcountry trips, and ease of use. i would feel much more confortable in gusty conditions with a foil being able to release the whole thing to a crumpled pile of fabric rather than "landing" a wing. i can see why they have their place, especially in snowkiting. however, when i was on echo on my 12 caution answer which is a super fast kite to begin with, i felt like i had more control of the power becuase the kite was so responsive. i could be lazy and adjust my power as i approached a new terrain feature instead of planning and plotting exactly where i woudl be and what i was goign to do with the kite. if i was trying to to a little top turn on a bank, and i didn't have enough power, i coudl easily loop or power stroke the kite wiht little time and still do the turn i wanted. i definitely don't think i could do that with a foil.


just my $.02 on foils...

Mike,
I always have problems going from a high depower inflatable to a foil. You don't get the wind range or that pull in the bar and float with a foil. It does take more time to get used to, a couple sessions at least.
In foils defense though, when it is 10 degrees outside and blowing, I personally would never want to spend time inflating. Also with gusty mountain winds, I see people pump up the right size kite, only to find the winds changed while pumping. Lastly, the easy relaunch. I don't know how many times I've seen someone try and relaunch an inflatable on snow and sit there for a half an hour or more. Especially when winds are light.
Hopefully we'll get a foil that has the depower of a bow soon. Without the flysurfer cost!
Mike L.

Mike,

You need to try more foil kites before you make some of the generalizations about foils that you have made after flying the Montana. There are some big differences between the different foils just as there are with LEI kites.

For example, Flysurfer Speed II and Ozone Manta II kites are high aspect ratio. They feel a lot like a Waroo when it comes to jumping. The Waroo does have excellent range, the FS Speed II actually has more range than the Waroo.

As far as turning speed goes - A 12M foil and a 12M bow kite do not generate the same amount of power. A 12M foil is more like a 15M bow kite because foils tend to be flatter and more efficient. So for example, my 15M Silver Arrow is equivalent to a 19M bow and my 19M SA is equivalent to a 26M bow.

The big downside to foils is the bridling (it can be a pain to sort bridles, the Ozones and Montana are better in this regard than the Flysurfers) and the lack of a rigid leading edge (a solid leading edge prevents tip folds and tacos in light wind conditions).

I suggest that you try other models that suit your style of riding, just stay away from scrub oak!

Kenny