Bow against C-kites and foil

[Jacob Buzianis]

Bow versus C-kites and foil

The bow kite has a huge advantage and is very forgiving for snowkiting. TheWind range is super and it is extremely fast to relaunch. It has the best safety system and is the most forgiving kite out there. The bow will give you a huge boost and glide off the ground, hill and mountain. It also give the kite is super fast turning, Since Jan. I haven't even taking my C-kite out of the garage. It still sitting there and they are brand new. The only small problem with the Bow kite is the Pump it up deal. It is however, well worth it to pump up the bow kite when you can have all the above stated advantages. And the great news is right now the bow kite is coming outwith one pump system. This is even going to be better because you don't have to take your gloves only one time to cap the valve.

The bow kite's huge wind range is another important thing to consider. When snowkiting. you may be going through the mountain, open field, rolling hills or narrow areas, The winds may be gusty, light, or strong. No
matter the condition you will be able to adjust to those conditions easily and quickly with the bow's bar. Don't freak when the kite flutter. It's a good thing. It does this because it is releasing the power of the kite. It only happens when you depower your bow kite. The C-kites and Foil just don't have that huge wind range as the bow kite does.

The bow kite is super fast to relaunch, Oh man, we are so lucky to
have this for snowkiting. We can rig out our kite and relaunch alone by pulling one of the back line or both back lines. No need for someone to help us launch it. No need to wait for someone to help you. You won't believe how much time we saved from this. It cut down our time by triple after all that time waiting for someone to launch my c kite or fix my tangling foil, All the handle pass misses and crashes I made with the C-kite and foil are history. I would like to buy a beer for designer of these kites because they really make a difference.


The bow has the best safety system, I even hook my leash on the chicken line now. I never do that on the C-kites or the foil kites. Even the beginner and intermediate rider hook their leash on to the chicken loop now on the bow kites. This is how much safer they feel and I feel when using it. It depower all the way out if I miss a handle pass or let off the bar. It will just fly above me hovering there like you were holding a one line kite or hover to the side. No jerking around through the snow or strong pull anymore. The quick release systems are similar to the C-kite and foil but the bow kite has an easier, better and faster release. Because of the quick depower and it is easy to release the kite. With the C-kites and foil, you will either get jerked around or get pulled so hard. It make it difficult to make the fast response to release the kite from you.

Super fast turning bow kites, Dude, you wouldn't believe how fast it takes
me up the top of the hill or Mountain. I can max power up the kite and do
kite loop up the mountain faster then the foil and C-kites. Another thing,
kite loop which it my favorite thing to do on the snow., can be done with
Different kinds of kite loops on them. Just an example is the Helicopter loop, Down loop, upper loop, long oval loop, short oval loop, super long oval loop, big loop narrow loop, tight loop, sharp loop, quick loop, single #8 shape loop. Double #8 shape loop on and on. On the foil, we could only do between 20%-30% of those kite loops. On the C-kite, we could probably only do 80% of those kite loops. This is another reason to be thankful we have this design.

The boost and gliding on the bow kites is great! You have the flexibility
to get huge or small boost and long or short gliding just by powering up with your bar or depowering with your bar. You can do sick long and huge boost by powering Up the bow kite. Another thing, you can do is by adjusting with your bar by pulling up or down if you want to come up or down and glide long or short To avoid something or going over a gap. There were times when I had to avoid hitting someone or a tree and powering up to go over the gap or depowering so I didn't over shoot the gap. With the C-kite and foil kite you are limited.

Please do add to this or agrue it. It just something I wanted to share with the Utah Kite Crew

Jacob Buzianis

[Kenny]

Jacob,

I won't argue with you or add to your comments. I am just curious what your wife thinks about you sending so much beer and hookers to the bow kite designers? How do you feed your kids these days?

Kenny

P.S. when you refer to bow. Do mean the Waroo SLE or all bow kites in general?

[Jacob Buzianis]

I'm refering to all bow kites in gerenal.

Kenny, I edit it and remove that part. OOP! She would kill me for buying those for the designer. Thanks

[bordy]

I will have to admit watching Kenny ride a waroo and listening to Jake, tell me what he likes about the warro was the entire reson I bought one..

I was just amazed the other day when I was at Lincoln flying my 9 and felt the power was good, only to read Arpi was riding a 16 a SSB the same day. That just tells you how these kites handle gust and wind range. I do still feel like I can jump my C-kite better. I am sure with a bit of practice this will change.

Although Many of my skiing friend use foil kites I am sold on the bow for the ability to work on snow-water land ,,whatever..

[MikE mAy]

i will have to admit everyone has talked me into a waroo. i guess i'll have to start shopping around.

on a sidebar here, i'm planning a little basement cleaning and getting ready for the snow sesh tomorrow. that includes making sure everything's waxed, new boots fit new skis, and making sure my kiting gear is still all good. this leads me into my big question for you guys:

kenny, bill, Jon, and Jake all know what kites i have and will most likely start out the season on. they are both 5th line equipped LEIs. i have heard that i need to attach my 5th line to my trailing edge. i think i can figure that out. however, these questions came to mind:

1) why attach 5th line to trailing edge when leading edge attachment provides me a safety to blow to if problems arise. i can only think of being able to "back the kite up into the air" if i was to crash it on it's leading edge. i was thinking- why can't i just pull in my 5th line on snow just like on the water and launch that way? is it an ice abrasion problem?

2) if i was able to attach my 5th to the trailing edge, how is my safety supposed to be hooked up now? leash to a trailing edge steering line?

3) if i need to make a little v line to spread the load onto two struts for the trailing edge 5th, can i just use any line? i've got some old spectra from a very very old wipika 2 line kite i might hack up. would this work?

laters! let's hope we are out on snow in a few weeks...

[Kenny]

Mike,

Make sure you take out some old thrashed boards at first. It is the same story at Skyline as the ski resorts, if not more so, lots of rocks exposed.

As far as your questions:

1. Yes, the reason you attach the line to the trailing edge is to back the kite up off the snow. If you leave it attached to the leading edge, it will not relaunch.
2. It depends on your bar setup. I connected my leash to the oh, sh*t handle on mine last year.
3. Get some new line. A good bet is some Q-line. Jon or Steve M. can probably hook you up with some. The old line may work, but let me tell you there is nothing worse than a short session ended by an equipment failure. You also take the risk of injuring your kite and yourself, just not worth it for a few dollars worth of line.

I can't wait for snow. What is it with this weather, lots of clouds, yet no snow and no wind - I am starting to go stir crazy!

Kenny

[Jacob Buzianis]

The reasons why I post this is to make sure that everyone is aware about this unique design for snow and water. I wanted to make sure that I cover everything. If the information is not true or not clear, please do add your comment in a positive way. I gather a lot of the information from people who tried out the new second generation bow kite. I asked them how is it compare to their c-kite and foil. Some of them own bow kites. Some of them had the oppurinty to try out all the kite companies that have bow kites Like Best Waroo kites, Cabrinha, Ozone Instint, North Rebel, Naish, etc. Most of the information were gather from the Utah Kite Crew, European kiters, some of them from the East Coast in New England area, and Rocky Mountain area like Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, etc and my experience. I don't think I need to name all those people because I don't want to Jeoporize their sponsorship and friendship.

I used to be a hard core C-kite rider. Now, I converted myself to the bow kite. C-kite are still good kites but there are too many cons and little pros on these kites. I rather have a safer, fast turning kite, and easy kite to use with a very few cons and a lot of pros whiches why I choose the bow kites.

I tried to get into foil kites but it didn't help me what I wanted in my riding. I put a number of hours into it but It just turned too slow and very unpredictable kite. I even tried out all the new foil kites. They have a improve a little bit but not much. They are good kite for some people and for other reasons like no pumping up involved. Snowkiting was started by using foil kites because it was safer and easier to use then. Foil kite will alwasy be a legend kite to me. I respect that. BUT, there a NEW BOW FOIL KITE design right now. I have only had three days of riding on it. It felt like a bow kite without inflatable. It does everything what a bow kite does but I'm not satisfied with it yet. I still need more time and see what it can do on heavy and hardcore riding. So, I had to take an easy on it. I didn't want to break the kite. This is something to look forward too.

Now, we have bow kites which It offer us safer and easier to use, even better then foil and c-kite. Yea, it does stuck when you have to pump it up. If I can have all these pros, I would pump it up. If this new BOW FOIL work for me, then I might become a Bow foil rider on snow, later on.

I'm only sharing and promoting want safer and easiser kite to use out there.

Again, if there is something I said that is not true or not clear. Please share your comment in a positive way.

Don't forget to pray for snow.

Looking forward this winter snowkiting season.

Hey Mike H, PM me I will help you set up the line for you if you need help.

Jacob Buzianis

[lesvierra]

I appreciate all the chatter about the different kites. Pros and Cons. I'd like to try all of them, but do not have the luxury. It seems hype gets old real quick in this sport. But it is still nice to hear different opinions on different kites. Cant get anything unbiased from the mags. And we (I) only hear about a few different kites here in Utah.

Derick from UKB helped me rig the trailing edge line on my 15m yarga with V attachment to struts. It worked good for me on Pineview.

[windzup]

Preach on brother Jake! I do have some positive comments to add.

Quick question tho, have you flown any of the 07 Ozone Snowkites? Because your foil comments are very general and misleading, not to mention outdated and incorrect. Modern foils turn as quick as ever, looping multiple times easily in a narrow window....myself and many adventurous snowkiters have taken foils up tight couloirs and even tree gaps like at Skyline(uphill). They are completey stable in all positions of the window and do not have the negative tendancy of inverting that Bow kites are known for.

Safety is the number one issue....Open foils can dump all air and become lifeless instantly, where all inflatables maintain shape and continue pulling until they are deflated. Foils are the only design of kites with brake lines, so like in your car, when you want the game over you can pull the brakes and everything stops. Trigger the safety release and you have taken the keys out of the engine. With any inflatble, even bows (I know, my company sells a leading model, so I am not biased - I will sell you one if you want the hassle) so with any inflatable what do you do when the game is over?? Umm let the bar out to depower, now what? You have let the gas off but there is no brake and the keys are still in the ignition with engine running. Ok, next move is release the safety and you end up a monkey holding onto a line with a un powered yet fully inflated kite...all you can do is call it a kitemare and wind in the line to walk home.
With a foil, one can chill out and take care of business, while still safely connected to the stalled kite....reload the safety and pull on the front lines, and the kite easily self launches.
The benefit of foils is simplicity, ease and safety....not to mention the extra half hour riding that kitesurfers lose while pumping up inflatables.

On the freestyle aspect, you don't have to jump as high as Chasta to appreciate complete stability and total built in safety. A foil has two skins or layers of fabric, giving the overall kite twice the load bearing absorbtion (a back up, like two kites in one) and most importantly is the load bearing dispersion of the multiple bridle lines. There are dozens of #300 test lines spreading your body weight across the entire body of the kite. Simply put, a standard inflatable has 4. What do you want to hang from, wether its 5 feet or 50 or 500? The 6 foot ladder in my garage say falling from that height may result in injury or death

On a side note Jake, if you are afraid to fly the foil you are currently testing...you should put it in the bag and send it back immediately. I can attest from years of experience that a decent foil is damn near indestructible if not easily repairable. If your is looking like breaking already...its not a good sign

Choose what you like, but there is a reason why most people fly inflatables on the water and foils on the snow, it just makes sense. If my company only made an inflatable....I'd probably try to justify it too.

Snow is coming Snow is coming snow is coming snow is coming snowis coming snow is coming snow is coming

Windzup
Brian